Bob Abrahamian 00:00
Okay, you are tuned to WHPK 88.5 FM in Chicago. You are now listening to the Sitting in the Park show. Today is a special show because I'm doing an interview with a singer named Burt Bowen, who was a member of a couple of groups from the South Side of Chicago — specifically The Chanteurs and The Presidents.
What makes this interview especially interesting is that these groups eventually evolved into The Chi-Lites, so it offers some important historical background on what was going on in those very early years. I want to dedicate this interview to the memories of Eugene Record and Robert Earl Lester, who were members of the groups Burt was in.
So, first of all, thanks so much for coming down to the station, Burt.
Burt Bowen 01:17
Okay, thank you for inviting me, Bob. I'm glad to be here.
Bob Abrahamian 01:21
Another cool thing about your groups is that they were actually from right around here — real close to the station.
Burt Bowen 01:28
Right, right. I was from near Englewood. Gene, Squirrel, Clarence Johnson — they lived near Minerva and Market, between Woodlawn and University. Our main spot was under the street lamps at 65th and Woodlawn. That’s where we used to kick butt.
Bob Abrahamian 01:56
Right, right, right — so pretty much just a few blocks from here is where you guys got started. Let's back up even a little further. Were you born in Chicago?
Burt Bowen 02:13
Yes, I was — 6233 South Langley Avenue. I lived there for 14 years. I was the youngest of three — two boys and a girl. I went to Holy Cross Catholic School at 66th and Maryland. Eugene Record went to St. Anselm, and Clarence Johnson and Robert Earl, aka Squirrel, went to Wadsworth. We were all young — but we were good.
Bob Abrahamian 02:49
How did you get involved with music originally?
Burt Bowen 02:53
Well, I always had a talent for comedy or singing. I started in the choir at Holy Cross. My siblings and I were some of the first Black students to integrate Holy Cross back in 1947. That was when the Black community was moving east of Cottage Grove — and back then, 63rd and Cottage was the hot spot. Everything you wanted was up there: jazz, dance clubs, anything. Chicago was really popping, and 63rd Street was the place.
Bob Abrahamian 03:45
There were a bunch of clubs there too, right?
Burt Bowen 03:50
Oh yeah, the Trianon Ballroom was one of our first gigs. I discovered Gene at that time. I used to go to Sexton School at 60th and Langley. There was a little island near Washington Park — before you hit the park going north — and Gene lived on 60th and St. Lawrence. I wandered over there when I was about 11 and saw a bunch of young guys doo-wopping. I tried to step in, but they kept pushing me back. Eventually, when they saw I had some skill — that’s how it all began. Gene and I started practicing at his house on 60th and St. Lawrence. There was a guy named DeWitt Guard on the corner who was our lead singer for a while.
Then we morphed into The Five Wrens. That group was me, Eugene Record, Jerry Harden, Jerry North, Curry Dern, and myself.
Bob Abrahamian 06:37
So you originally just kind of ran into them at Washington Park? You were saying they were just singing out there, and you tried to join in?
Burt Bowen 06:45
Right — and I persisted. Every time I stepped up, they’d push me back. But I kept stepping up.
Bob Abrahamian 06:55
What were they singing? What kind of stuff?
Burt Bowen 06:58
You know — typical Doo-Wop. The Clovers, The Spaniels, The El Dorados. All the good old groups.
Bob Abrahamian 07:06
Do you remember what year you met them in Washington Park?
Burt Bowen 07:10
If I tell you that, I’d be telling my age! But I was around 11 years old when I met Gene. We were about 12 when we did our first professional gig at the Trianon Ballroom. We were called The Five Wrens then. Our manager was a famous Black model at the time — Cordy King. She lived on 62nd and King Drive and got us that gig.
Bob Abrahamian 07:51
How did you end up getting a manager and a professional gig when you weren’t even in high school yet?
Burt Bowen 07:59
Well, it was Eugene Record. I remember going over to his house to rehearse. His parents would buy him anything — I mean anything. When he was about 12 or 13, his father bought him this high-end Gibson electric guitar. Gene didn’t know how to play a lick, but that was the kind of support he had.
We’d go back and forth between his house and mine — from 60th and St. Lawrence to 62nd and Langley. We were also members of the Boys Club. That’s where we met Clarence and Squirrel, and the group really started coming together.
Bob Abrahamian 08:47
So you did that first show at the Trianon Ballroom as The Five Wrens. What kind of material did you perform?
Burt Bowen 08:55
Oh man, I can’t even remember exactly. But it wasn’t pop — it was definitely R&B. It was an adult audience, too.
Bob Abrahamian 09:05
So you were just in grammar school doing a late-night show? That’s impressive. Was that your only show as The Five Wrens?
Burt Bowen 09:12
No, Clarence — he was kind of our business manager at the time — he got us a few gigs here and there. We were trying to get it all together.
Bob Abrahamian 09:26
So was Clarence Johnson part of The Five Wrens?
Burt Bowen 09:30
No, no — we met Clarence and Squirrel after The Five Wrens. That’s when we became The Chanteurs.
Bob Abrahamian 09:37
Okay, but just with The Five Wrens — how many shows did you do?
Burt Bowen 09:41
Just that one real show. We were together maybe a year or two, still in grammar school.
Bob Abrahamian 09:50
Still — having a real show at that age is impressive. So how did you end up meeting Clarence Johnson and Squirrel?
Burt Bowen 09:59
There was a little island just off 60th Street, right before you enter Washington Park. It was kind of a gathering place for anyone who wanted to sing Doo-Wop — especially young folks. You might see 50, 60, 70 people out there.
If I remember correctly, Clarence came over one day. He was business-minded even back then. He lived on 64th and Minerva. Squirrel — Robert Earl — lived on Marquette, between Woodlawn and Kimbark. Somehow we all came together. I don’t remember the exact moment, but we just clicked.
And then we found out about the death of Darrell — who had been part of Marshall Thompson’s group. They used to challenge us.
Bob Abrahamian 10:56
So that’s when you formed the new group — The Chanteurs?
Burt Bowen 11:00
Yeah, that’s when we became The Chanteurs.
Bob Abrahamian 11:15
So the Five Wrens had broken up, and a new group, The Chanteurs, had formed. What was the lineup of The Chanteurs?
Burt Bowen 11:22
It was me, Clarence Johnson, Robert Earl Lester (Squirrel), Eddie Reed, and Eugene Record.
Bob Abrahamian 11:33
So Eugene Record was the only member from The Five Wrens who was also in The Chanteurs?
Burt Bowen 11:37
Right — and we all met in that same little area near Washington Park.
Bob Abrahamian 11:42
Did a lot of other groups form in that area too?
Burt Bowen 11:46
I don’t know for sure, but there was a place not far from the Trianon — on 62nd and Cottage — called the Railroad Union Hall. All the groups liked practicing there because of the acoustics. It was upstairs, but we used the downstairs hallway. The sound was just beautiful.
We used to run into groups like The Dandelions there. I think The Dells came through once or twice too. People would just sneak in to practice. Sometimes security would chase us out, but we loved it. We loved that sound in the Railroad Union Hall.
Bob Abrahamian 12:13
Do you know if Squirrel or Clarence had been in any other groups before this?
Burt Bowen 12:21
Not that I know of. I don’t think so. When I met them, I was probably 13 or 14.
Bob Abrahamian 12:37
Were you in high school at that point?
Burt Bowen 12:39
I was just about to go. I had graduated grammar school.
Bob Abrahamian 12:43
Were the others around the same age?
Burt Bowen 12:46
Yeah, we were all about the same age — but we went to different schools. I went to Holy Cross Catholic grammar school. Eugene went to St. Anselm and then to St. Elizabeth Catholic High School. I went to Parker and then Hyde Park High School — I never finished, but I gave it a try.
Bob Abrahamian 13:40
Did any of the other members go to Hyde Park too?
Burt Bowen 13:43
Yeah, Squirrel went to Hyde Park. All the members of The Desideros — Marshall Thompson’s group — went to Hyde Park. I went there later, not when they were there.
Bob Abrahamian 13:50
And what year did The Chanteurs officially form?
Burt Bowen 13:53
Had to be around 1955 or 1956.
Bob Abrahamian 13:58
And you all formed in that same area near Washington Park?
Burt Bowen 14:01
Right. Then we started going to the Woodlawn Boys Club.
Bob Abrahamian 14:04
Where was the Woodlawn Boys Club?
Burt Bowen 14:06
Right there on 63rd and University. It had been there a long time.
Bob Abrahamian 14:10
Why did you guys go to the club?
Burt Bowen 14:13
It was a great place to practice. They had everything — ping pong, pool tables, all kinds of activities for young folks. It gave us a space to hang out and work on our sound.
Bob Abrahamian 14:25
And you all lived near each other?
Burt Bowen 14:29
Basically, yeah — especially Clarence and Robert Earl. They lived almost around the corner from me. Gene and I were the only ones a little farther out. Gene was at 60th and St. Lawrence, and I was at 62nd and Langley.
Bob Abrahamian 14:48
So you were farther west. Okay. You mentioned earlier that there was kind of a rival group?
Burt Bowen 14:53
Yeah — The Desideros.
Bob Abrahamian 14:55
Who were The Desideros?
Burt Bowen 14:57
Marshall Thompson, Creadel Jones, Eddie Sullivan, Dale Brown, and another guy whose name I can’t recall. They used to challenge us all the time — right there under the street lamps at 65th and Woodlawn.
And we used to kick their butt every time they opened their mouths. They couldn’t believe it! It was all in fun though — great memories. I’m glad you’re bringing this all back.
Bob Abrahamian 15:42
If they told the story, would it be the reverse?
Burt Bowen 15:45
[Laughs] I mean, no pun intended, but... if Marshall heard it, he’d probably tell the truth.
Bob Abrahamian 17:00
So, you were with the group for about five years before they recorded Wishing Well, but at that point you were out of the group for a little while. What happened?
Burt Bowen 17:07
Yeah, at that time I was going through some personal things — family stuff. I was the youngest of three, and things were tough. I’d been in and out of the group a couple of times. That’s when Leo Austell and Solly McElroy — who was one of my idols — stepped in. Solly was the original lead singer of The Flamingos.
Leo and Father McElroy didn’t trust me to stick around, because I had left the group a couple of times. They didn’t want me back. The only ones who stood by me were Clarence Johnson, Squirrel, and Gene. They knew what I was going through. But when I eventually got back with them, that’s when we became The Presidents.
Bob Abrahamian 17:53
Okay. So the first record the group released was Wishing Well. I’m going to play it now, just to include it in the story. Then we can talk about the record that you recorded with them afterwards.
Burt Bowen 18:05
Okay, fine.
Bob Abrahamian 18:07
So this is the first record The Chanteurs released — without Burt singing on it. The lead singer here is Solly McElroy, who, as Burt just noted, was a member of both The Flamingos and The Moroccos. This came out in 1960. Here’s Wishing Well by The Chanteurs.
[music playing — Wishing Well by The Chanteurs]
Bob Abrahamian 21:03
Yeah, okay — you’re tuned to WHPK 88.5 FM in Chicago. That was The Chanteurs with Wishing Well. If you're just tuning in, I have Burt Bowen here — an original member of The Chanteurs and The Presidents — telling the story of his group.
As we just noted, that record doesn’t have Burt singing on it. The lead was sung by Solly McElroy, who also had stints with The Flamingos and The Moroccos. So by the time Wishing Well came out in 1960, the group had already been together for about five years. You had been in and out of the group a few times, right?
Burt Bowen 22:08
Yeah. During that time, we were trying to find that gold ring — you know, success. We didn’t do a lot of shows, but a couple of them I remember real well.
One was at the Ida B. Wells Field House, had to be around 1957 or ’58. Curtis Mayfield was the bandleader. They had Howlin’ Wolf on the show, The Debonaires — and we were on the bill too. I can’t even remember what we sang, it was so long ago, but it was wild.
They had to give Howlin’ Wolf the hook — he didn’t want to get off stage. He was taking up everybody’s time! But we did alright. We kept the name going — The Chanteurs.
Burt Bowen 22:08
It wasn’t a lot because we were trying to find that gold ring. But a couple of shows really stood out. We did one around ’57 or ’58 at Ida B. Wells Field House — Curtis Mayfield was the bandleader. Howlin’ Wolf was there, The Debonaires, and a few others. I can’t remember what song we sang, it was so long ago. But I remember they had to give Howlin’ Wolf the hook — he wanted to do the whole show!
We did pretty well though. We kept the name going — The Chanteurs. But the biggest moment for us was the Senior Variety show at Hyde Park in 1958. Since we were all alumni, it was a big deal. The lineup had The Dells, The Kool Gents, The Moroccos with Solly, The Spaniels, The El Dorados — even The Magnificents.
But we pulled a “no-no” — we sang a song from The Dells’ set: I Want to Go Home. You're not supposed to sing another act’s material, especially if they’re on the same show. But we nailed it — sounded just as good as they did, maybe better. They didn’t say anything, but you could tell by the look on their faces that they weren’t too happy.
During our set break, when folks were dancing and stepping, we threw our bowties into the crowd. People went wild — except mine. I found it later on the floor behind some seats. Nobody picked it up! I felt kind of bad, but it was fun.
Bob Abrahamian 25:15
Did you have a signature song or style that you did at your shows?
Burt Bowen 25:20
Not really. Gene could imitate any lead singer — didn’t matter what group. Our harmony was just that tight. At that time, when we were still young and singing under streetlamps — we were bad, man. Really good.
Bob Abrahamian 26:00
And what parts did each person sing?
Burt Bowen 26:06
I was baritone. Clarence Johnson was second tenor. Squirrel was first tenor. Gene was lead and also first tenor. And Eddie Reed — oh, Eddie was special. He was maybe 4–6 years older than us, a gospel-singing country boy with a voice like thunder. One of the best bass singers I ever heard.
Bob Abrahamian 26:52
And Clarence later became known as a producer, right? Like with Love Jones?
Burt Bowen 27:04
Yeah. He was a solid singer, but more of a background guy, like me. Clarence, Squirrel, and I were the backbone of that group’s harmony. We were so tight, sometimes we surprised ourselves.
Bob Abrahamian 27:26
So you were together for about five years before you recorded. Did Wishing Well get much play?
Burt Bowen 27:41
I’m not sure. At the time, I was raising a family. I got married real young and was in and out of singing until I got back with the group — and by then, we’d become The Presidents. We changed our name because there was already another group called The Presidents who had the song 5-10-15-20.
Bob Abrahamian 28:25
Who came up with the name The Chanteurs?
Burt Bowen 28:30
Clarence Johnson.
Bob Abrahamian 28:35
And The Presidents?
Burt Bowen 28:39
Clarence again. He was everything — the business manager, the organizer. He got the gigs and kept us in line. We had a couple of fights, but everything turned out okay in the end.
Bob Abrahamian 29:20
So Leo Austell managed the group for a while?
Burt Bowen 29:39
Yeah, I was there when Leo became manager. He tried to bring in Solly — we even went to Solly’s house. Leo didn’t trust me because of my in-and-out history. I started getting my life together around then. I got married in 1960 — I was 18, my wife was 16. Clarence and Gene threw me a bachelor party. Right after that, I rejoined the group, and we became The Presidents.
Bob Abrahamian 31:20
And then you cut Pots and Pans for Mercury Records?
Burt Bowen 31:40
Right. We thought that was our big break.
[music playing — "Pots and Pans" by The Presidents]
Bob Abrahamian 34:37
That was The Presidents out of Chicago with Pots and Pans. So that came out in ’62. Did it get airplay?
Burt Bowen 35:12
Yeah! I heard it — even WLS played it once. My mother heard it, people were calling Gene saying, “I heard your record!” We thought we were on our way... and now I’m here talking to you. [laughs]
Bob Abrahamian 35:41
Are you saying you’re nobody?
Burt Bowen 35:49
No, dealing with you, I’ve had an hour of fame instead of 15 minutes! You even did a piece on me on Chic-A-Go-Go.
Bob Abrahamian 36:09
That’s my friend’s show!
Burt Bowen 36:11
Yeah, but you were the reason I got that exposure. I felt like a star. I appreciated that.
Bob Abrahamian 36:16
Did The Presidents do any shows after the record?
Burt Bowen 36:22
Yeah, we did a promo party at Gene Autry’s club — The Saharan on Mannheim Road. It was a real Las Vegas–style place. I saw Boots Randolph, Quincy Jones. We sang our song. It was beautiful.
But people always ask me, “Why did you quit?” Well, I had to go my own way. I got married — I joke that my wife was carrying one, pushing one, and kicking one! I had to make real money. They wanted me to keep going with the music, but I had babies crawling around, man. So I stepped back.
A few years later, I was selling records for Jimmy Mines. Someone told me Gene, Creadel, Marshall, and Squirrel were living behind Hyde Park. I went to see them — four guys, one room, no electricity. I couldn’t do that. But they stuck with it. First, they became The Hi-Lites — then The Chi-Lites.
Bob Abrahamian 40:11
So two rival groups basically joined up and became The Chi-Lites. Their big hits came much later.
Burt Bowen 40:49
Yeah. And there was another Chanteurs record — Grizzly Bear. That was their biggest hit. I was gone by then.
Bob Abrahamian 40:54
So they went back to The Chanteurs name and signed with Vee-Jay Records. But you were done?
Burt Bowen 41:03
Yeah. People ask why I left. I did what I had to do. But we stayed friends. Gene was my oldest son’s godfather. Squirrel and I were close — we’d stay over at each other’s houses as teenagers.
Bob Abrahamian 41:52
And it took almost 10 more years before they became stars.
Burt Bowen 42:00
Exactly. But I’m proud of them. People don’t always think before they ask questions like “Why’d you leave?” I had responsibilities. I bought every record they made. My wife could pick out Squirrel’s voice from a mile away.
We used to walk up to 35th Street when they’d play in the mall. Squirrel would see me and bring me backstage. He never forgot me. Neither did Gene. And I never forgot them.
Bob Abrahamian 44:48
I’m so glad you came down and shared your part of the story — the early Chi-Lites, The Chanteurs. Thank you.
Burt Bowen 45:07
Thank you. You know, it’s ironic. When Gene and Squirrel passed, Squirrel called me two weeks after his diagnosis. That’s real friendship. Clarence Johnson is still my closest friend — he’s not doing well right now, but Clarence, if you’re listening: I love you. Hang in there.
Thank you, Bob, for everything.
Bob Abrahamian 46:18
Thanks again for coming. I really appreciate it.
Bob Abrahamian 46:40
And now, here’s that last record from The Chanteurs after Burt left — their biggest hit, Grizzly Bear.