A journey of harmony, heart, and hope with Love’s Children
In this intimate oral history on Sitting in the Park, Bob Abrahamian brings listeners deep into the untold saga of Love’s Children, a soul group rooted in the west side of Gary, Indiana. Originally called The Domestics, this tight-knit ensemble of teenage talents emerged from school bathrooms and citywide talent shows to record unreleased gems at Stax, Hi, and Motown. Guided by a fierce love for the music and each other, their story reflects the triumphs and turbulence of countless young soul hopefuls in the late 1960s and early ’70s—a blend of artistry, ambition, and the hard truths of the music industry.
The story of Love’s Children and the road not taken
In the universe of soul music, for every household name like The Jackson 5 or The Temptations, there are dozens of groups whose fire burned just as brightly, even if only briefly. The Domestics—later renamed Love’s Children by none other than Curtis Mayfield—were one such group, their legacy buried in unreleased tapes and local lore. This in-depth conversation with Joseph Holman and Glen Ross, unearthed by Bob Abrahamian on Sitting in the Park, is a rare, powerful record of youthful passion, creative resilience, and the fickle promise of the music industry in the late 1960s and early ’70s.
Their story begins in the church basements and school bathrooms of Gary, Indiana, a town known today as the birthplace of the Jackson 5. Joseph Holman, raised in Gary from age five, was taught harmony by Robert Griffin in junior high—learning quite literally in the echo chambers of school restrooms. Glen Ross, a transplant from Indianapolis, had his musical foundation laid beside his jazz-playing father’s Hammond B3, with legends like Wes Montgomery and Freddie Hubbard passing through his home. Their worlds collided in Gary’s west side, where neighborhood talent and shared dreams forged a band of extraordinary young musicians.
As The Domestics, the group cultivated not just harmonies, but a full-blown stage presence—complete with waiter jackets, fur vests, and psychedelic lighting. Their choreographed shows were the kind of polished, electrifying experiences reminiscent of the Temptations, but flavored with the emerging funk sensibilities of Sly & the Family Stone. Even in their early teens, they were booking gigs at major Midwest theaters and clubs, playing alongside Impressions alumni and backed by a band called Class Five.
A turning point came with a brush of Memphis soul royalty. Selected to open for the Memphis Review led by Willie Mitchell and Rufus Thomas, the group packed into a station wagon and drove south. Mitchell, impressed by their tight performance, brought them to Hi Records’ new studio on McLemore Avenue—still redolent with Al Green’s yet-to-be-released sessions. There, they recorded “Going Far Away” and other tracks written largely by guitarist Derek Echols. The band, not just the singers, played on the sessions—a rarity for young, unsigned acts at the time.
Though the recordings bore the unmistakable punch of Hi’s signature horns and deep pocket grooves, they never saw release. Management disputes and youth-dependent logistics derailed what could have been a breakthrough. The group, undeterred, went on to record at Stax—where they marveled at Isaac Hayes’ gold-trimmed Cadillac—and later traveled to Motown, invited by none other than Stevie Wonder via cousin and lead singer Charles Simmons. There, they recorded two songs, including one written by Stevie himself, but again found themselves sidelined in the label's crowded roster.
The sequence of near-misses would have broken many groups. Yet for Love’s Children, the final chapter unfolded in their hometown’s cousin city, Chicago. After a show arranged by Holman’s brother, Curtis Mayfield and bassist Lucky Scott invited them to Curtom Records. Eddie Thomas loved their sound. They were renamed “Love’s Children”—a nod to Mayfield’s daughter—and recorded “Soul Is Love” and “This Is the End.” Though only one 45 emerged, it received airplay on WVON thanks to support from the legendary Herb Kent.
Their story mirrors the trajectory of so many groups lost to the margins of music history: immense local buzz, brushes with greatness, and promises made but never fulfilled. Yet what makes this tale extraordinary is the trail of artistry left behind. From strobe-lit shows in Midwest theaters to unreleased studio sessions with Willie Mitchell and Stevie Wonder, Love’s Children were not just aspirants—they were innovators, seasoned performers by age 16, shaped by the highest tiers of soul’s inner sanctums.
Moreover, the cultural context can’t be ignored. Coming of age in the post-Civil Rights era, in cities like Gary and Chicago, these young musicians were navigating segregation, youth curfews, and an industry where managers held all the cards. Their commitment to excellence—practicing four nights a week, hauling gear on city buses, and performing in prisons as community outreach—reveals not just talent, but grit.
That their recordings remain largely unreleased is not a tragedy; it is a call to re-examine our archives and restore these voices to the narrative. Thanks to Glen Ross safeguarding their Hi Records tapes and to Bob Abrahamian’s patient interviews, we now have a roadmap back to their brilliance.
Bob Abrahamian 00:00
Okay, you're tuned to WHPK 88.5 FM, Chicago. You're now listening to the Sitting in the Park show. Today is a special show because we're starting off with an interview with a group who were actually from Gary, Indiana, but recorded on a few labels, including Curtom Records in Chicago. The group is called Love's Children, and they had a different name before that. We'll be going over their story. So first of all, can you guys introduce yourselves?
Joseph Holman 00:33
Yeah, my name is Joseph Holman, and I'm Glen Roth.
Bob Abrahamian 00:39
Okay, cool. So I guess I'll go individually into each of your backgrounds and how you came together. Joseph, are you originally from Gary?
Joseph Holman 00:52
Born here in Chicago, but I was raised in Gary, Indiana.
Bob Abrahamian 00:56
Okay, and when did you move to Gary?
Joseph Holman 00:59
Had to be about five years old.
Bob Abrahamian 01:01
Okay. And how’d you first get involved with music?
Joseph Holman 01:03
Church.
Bob Abrahamian 01:05
Okay, so that’s where you learned—and you're a singer, right?
Joseph Holman 01:08
Yes.
Bob Abrahamian 01:09
That's where you learned how to sing harmony?
Joseph Holman 01:11
Actually, I learned how to sing harmony from a friend when I was in junior high. Matter of fact, he’s a minister now. He taught us harmony—a guy named Robert Griffin from Indiana. We actually learned in the bathroom at school.
Bob Abrahamian 01:33
People were talking about the echo, right?
Joseph Holman 01:35
Exactly.
Bob Abrahamian 01:37
So around that time, what types of stuff were you singing?
Joseph Holman 01:40
A lot of Temptations, Marvelows, Smokey Robinson and the Miracles—things like that.
Bob Abrahamian 01:48
Okay, and did you have a group together in junior high, or were you just singing casually?
Joseph Holman 01:54
We were just singing. We didn’t actually have a group formed. But we were the harmony guys there at Grace Junior High.
Bob Abrahamian 02:07
So there weren’t a lot of other people singing—it was just you guys?
Joseph Holman 02:08
There were a few around, but we were just one group. I thought we were probably better than the rest.
Bob Abrahamian 02:20
Okay, so when did you officially put a group together?
Joseph Holman 02:26
A friend of mine—he’s deceased now—we were singing together and had the same probation officer. We got in trouble as kids, and our probation officer, Mr. Ashbury, who was also an art teacher at one of the high schools in Gary, heard us sing. He said, “I didn’t know you guys could do something this constructive.” Then he said, “Let me make a few calls.” He hooked us up with Willie. Willie’s mother became our first manager.
Bob Abrahamian 03:05
What high school was that guy the art teacher at?
Joseph Holman 03:11
I believe it might have been Roosevelt.
Bob Abrahamian 03:15
And were you in high school at the time?
Joseph Holman 03:18
No, I was still in junior high.
Bob Abrahamian 03:21
So who were the people that he hooked together?
Joseph Holman 03:26
Let’s see—a guy named Willie Joyce, a guy named Jimmy Clark, Robert Griffin, Stanley Creel...
Bob Abrahamian 03:42
And you?
Joseph Holman 03:44
And myself.
Bob Abrahamian 03:46
So there were five guys together originally. And did you have a name?
Joseph Holman 03:50
No, we didn’t have a name. We were just “the harmony guys.” That’s what people called us.
Bob Abrahamian 03:55
Were you from different areas of Gary?
Joseph Holman 03:59
No, we were all from the west side of Gary, around Edison Junior High.
Bob Abrahamian 04:07
Did you all go to the same school?
Joseph Holman 04:09
Yes.
Bob Abrahamian 04:10
So did you continue singing and eventually form a group with a name?
Joseph Holman 04:18
After we hooked up with Willie Joyce’s mother, she introduced us to—I think it was Marcus—and they collaborated on getting us on some shows and whatnot. We actually got pretty good. Well, Glenn was still part of it, so he can tell you how he got involved.
Bob Abrahamian 04:46
Okay, cool. So Glen, are you originally from Gary?
Glen Ross 04:49
No, I’m originally from Indianapolis. We moved to Gary in 1967—that year with the giant blizzard, the biggest I’ve ever seen. While I was in Indianapolis, my father was a keyboard player. Every Sunday, some of the great jazz musicians would eat at our house. My mother always fixed a big Sunday dinner, and we’d have people like Wes Montgomery, Freddie Hubbard, even Count Basie. I was about four or five years old, sitting on a stool next to the Hammond B3 while my father played, watching everything he did. That’s what got me involved in music.
When I moved to Gary, I was about 11 years old. I started my first group called the Glen Soul Trio, and we were doing a lot of Booker T. & the MG's-type stuff. That’s when I knew Joe sang, and they came to me and asked if I’d like to be part of their band. I joined up with them. He lived a block away from me, and we were all from the same neighborhood. We started doing pretty well in music. I didn’t have any problems from my parents—some of the other guys did. Their parents wouldn’t let them go on tour and such. But my dad was a musician, so he understood.
Bob Abrahamian 06:22
So you played keyboards, learned from your dad?
Glen Ross 06:25
That’s right.
Bob Abrahamian 06:26
You said you had the Glen Soul Trio—how’d you form that?
Glen Ross 06:34
Just three of us from school: Mario Marino on guitar, James Scott on bass, and myself.
Bob Abrahamian 06:48
Were you in high school at that time?
Glen Ross 06:51
No, still about 11 years old.
Bob Abrahamian 06:54
Did Glen Soul Trio do shows?
Glen Ross 06:57
Yeah, a couple talent shows. Not many. That’s when I got recruited by the Domestics, or Domestic Four. When we went to Curtom Studios, they changed our name to Love’s Children.
Bob Abrahamian 07:15
So when it was just you three, you were doing songs like “Green Onions”?
Glen Ross 07:18
Exactly.
Bob Abrahamian 07:22
Going back to the vocal group—Joe, when did you get a name and how did the group come together?
Joseph Holman 07:35
We sat around and brainstormed. Someone already had the name “The Domestics” in mind. Our hook was that we’d wear short waiter jackets with towels over our arms—we had tight steps like the Temptations.
Bob Abrahamian 08:03
So you were styled as “the help”—was that weird?
Joseph Holman 08:12
It was just a gimmick, a hook.
Bob Abrahamian 08:16
Who were the original members of the Domestics?
Joseph Holman 08:22
Willie Joyce, myself, Ernest Thomas, and Earl Hammer.
Bob Abrahamian 08:35
Did you all go to the same school?
Joseph Holman 08:40
A couple of us did. The others we met through Marcus Fairchild—he became our manager.
Bob Abrahamian 08:53
So you met Marcus before the group really formed?
Joseph Holman 08:59
Yeah, he helped solidify us as a group and as a name.
Bob Abrahamian 09:11
Was the “Domestics” name his idea?
Joseph Holman 09:22
No, it came from one of the group members—but I can’t remember who. That was a long time ago.
Bob Abrahamian 09:34
How old was everybody at the time?
Joseph Holman 09:36
I was one of the older ones—myself and Derek Echols were around the same age. I was about 14 when we started. Ages ranged from around 14 on down. Glenn was the youngest—and the shortest.
Bob Abrahamian 09:50
So you came up with the group name “The Domestics,” and there were four singers. How did you get hooked up with a band?
Joseph Holman 10:09
That was also through Marcus. He found Glenn, Baby (that was Ernest Thomas), and Tim. All of them lived right in the same neighborhood. Marcus knew them and brought everything together.
Bob Abrahamian 10:36
So Glenn, you ditched your old band and joined this one. Did you have a name as the band, or were you just the band for the Domestics?
Glen Ross 10:45
We were called Class Five.
Bob Abrahamian 10:50
So that was around ‘67 or ‘68?
Glen Ross 10:54
Yeah, about ’68.
Bob Abrahamian 10:57
So I have to ask—since you were in Gary and you were young, the Jackson 5 had to be in the picture somehow. Did you know them? Were they competitors?
Joseph Holman 11:16
Yeah, we knew of them. I knew Jackie, Tito, and Jermaine from various music functions around the city. Most bands knew each other since we often played the same shows. Gary is a small town, so it wasn’t hard to get to know everyone.
Bob Abrahamian 11:45
So you saw them perform, but did you ever do shows with them?
Joseph Holman 11:50
No, we were supposed to do a show in Detroit together, but it never materialized.
Bob Abrahamian 12:00
Can you talk about what the shows were like in Gary? In Chicago, we had big clubs like the High Chaparral. What was it like in Gary?
Joseph Holman 12:17
We did things like proms.
Glen Ross 12:22
And concerts at theaters like the Palace and Memorial Auditorium.
Bob Abrahamian 12:32
So those weren’t clubs, but actual theaters?
Joseph Holman 12:41
Right. And we also played in smaller bars and clubs.
Bob Abrahamian 12:47
Would the theater audiences be mostly adults, or were kids coming too? What about talent shows—were there shows for each high school or a citywide one?
Joseph Holman 13:06
The citywide ones were for the best of the best.
Bob Abrahamian 13:09
Where were those held? How did you get into them?
Joseph Holman 13:16
Most of the big talent shows were held at Memorial Auditorium. We had to apply and audition to get in.
Bob Abrahamian 13:45
Did the talent show have a name?
Glen Ross 13:58
Not that I recall. We played it one year and were special guests a couple of other years.
Bob Abrahamian 14:09
And the Jackson 5 were probably already in Detroit by then, right? So around that time, how often did you practice, and where?
Glen Ross 14:30
Four or five times a week.
Joseph Holman 14:33
At 2661 Monroe—that was the practice spot.
Bob Abrahamian 14:36
Was that someone's house? And did you all go to the same school?
Glen Ross 14:49
No. We went to Emerson, Roosevelt, and Westside.
Bob Abrahamian 14:53
So you weren’t like most groups, who all met in high school?
Joseph Holman 15:10
Right. Glenn and I lived on the west side, and we’d travel toward downtown to practice.
Bob Abrahamian 15:20
You took the bus?
Joseph Holman 15:22
Yeah.
Bob Abrahamian 15:23
And you couldn’t bring a whole organ on the bus.
Glen Ross 15:28
No, but I did carry the smaller one once or twice—and the stool. I only weighed about 70 pounds!
Bob Abrahamian 15:45
You took a B3 on the bus?
Joseph Holman 15:48
No, no—a truck or something. Not on the bus.
Bob Abrahamian 15:52
Did you have the Leslie speaker, with the rotating horn?
Glen Ross 15:54
Yes. I still have it. It's probably worth something now.
Bob Abrahamian 16:07
How long were you together before doing shows?
Joseph Holman 16:13
A couple of years before we started doing regular shows.
Bob Abrahamian 16:17
How often did you perform?
Joseph Holman 16:23
Maybe two or three times a month.
Bob Abrahamian 16:26
And what were your shows like?
Joseph Holman 16:32
We’d sing for maybe an hour and 30 minutes. We did requests too.
Bob Abrahamian 16:51
You did funk and soul songs, right? You always played with your band? Did you have any signature songs?
Glen Ross 17:11
Yeah—Sly and the Family Stone stuff, “Walk on By,” that kind of thing.
Joseph Holman 17:28
We had a skit we called “Creature Features.” We’d use strobe lights and make dramatic stage entrances, changing positions when the lights came on.
Bob Abrahamian 17:44
Were you still dressed like “The Domestics”?
Joseph Holman 17:54
Our outfits changed. At one point, we wore all black with fur vests.
Bob Abrahamian 18:07
So you were evolving your look?
Joseph Holman 18:14
Yeah. That’s the look in the photo you were trying to scan earlier.
Bob Abrahamian 18:17
You said you even had choreography—like coordinated spins and mic passes?
Joseph Holman 18:26
Yes. We had tight moves—step in line, turn, spin, switch mics across each other, and break down when the lead sang.
Bob Abrahamian 18:40
Who were the lead singers?
Joseph Holman 18:46
We had a couple: Keith Ledbetter and Charles Simmons. Charles was Stevie Wonder’s first cousin.
Bob Abrahamian 19:04
Did Keith ever record with you?
Joseph Holman 19:07
Yes, in Memphis.
Bob Abrahamian 19:11
Was that your first recording session?
Joseph Holman 19:13
Yes, our first professional session. We were picked to open for Willie Mitchell and the Memphis Review, which included Rufus Thomas. Rufus liked our band and told Willie, “I want that band.” He said if we could get to Memphis, he’d record us. So we piled into a station wagon and went.
Bob Abrahamian 19:49
How did you get selected for that review?
Joseph Holman 19:54
We had won a couple of talent shows and were chosen to open.
Bob Abrahamian 20:14
So you drove to Memphis. How did you fit your instruments?
Glen Ross 20:21
The guitar players had their own. We had a U-Haul on top. The studio had a keyboard.
Bob Abrahamian 20:32
What happened when you arrived?
Joseph Holman 20:41
We first went to Willie Mitchell’s house. He took pictures of all of us because he couldn’t believe how many of us fit in that car.
Bob Abrahamian 21:27
Did you record that same day?
Joseph Holman 21:46
We went to the studio that evening for a tour. He showed us around the new studio on McLemore that used to be a restaurant. He showed us shelves full of unreleased Al Green tapes.
Bob Abrahamian 22:23
So that was the Hi studio?
Joseph Holman 22:33
Yes, Willie Mitchell’s Hi Records.
Bob Abrahamian 22:37
Hi had a recognizable sound—horns, drums. What else do you remember?
Joseph Holman 22:54
It was exciting. We’d never been in a studio that big.
Bob Abrahamian 23:00
Was it one main room?
Joseph Holman 23:03
Yes, though we also recorded at Stax once.
Bob Abrahamian 23:09
What did you record that first time?
Joseph Holman 23:13
A song called “Going Far Away.”
Glen Ross 23:15
I think that’s on the tapes I still have. That and others.
Bob Abrahamian 23:20
Who wrote the material? Was it you guys, or was it Willie Mitchell’s staff?
Joseph Holman 23:29
Mostly us. Derek Echols, our guitar player, wrote a lot. I’d say about 85% of the material came from him.
Bob Abrahamian 23:45
What were the songs like—were they ballads or funky?
Joseph Holman 24:04
“Going Far Away” was funky. “Tick Tock” was more of a ballad.
Bob Abrahamian 24:13
Almost everything Hi Records released had Willie’s rhythm section. Were you the actual band playing?
Joseph Holman 24:37
Yes, that was all us.
Bob Abrahamian 24:39
That’s interesting—Hi recordings have a very specific drum sound. So you recorded the songs—did they ever get released?
Joseph Holman 24:51
No. There were business issues between our manager and the label. We ended up going in another direction.
Bob Abrahamian 25:09
So you recorded two songs for Hi that were never released. You went back to Gary. What happened then?
Joseph Holman 25:18
We kept doing our thing. I was in 10th grade at the time. We even went up to Detroit and auditioned for Motown.
Bob Abrahamian 25:21
Was that before or after your trip to Stax?
Joseph Holman 25:28
Stax came while we were still working in Memphis.
Bob Abrahamian 25:31
How many times did you go to Memphis?
Joseph Holman 25:35
Three times.
Bob Abrahamian 25:36
All arranged through your manager and Willie Mitchell?
Joseph Holman 25:41
Yep. Through them and Rufus Thomas.
Bob Abrahamian 25:43
So you returned to Hi Studios again?
Joseph Holman 26:03
Yes. We recorded more songs—don’t remember them all, but we had about an album’s worth of material.
Bob Abrahamian 26:15
So you were working on a full LP?
Joseph Holman 26:19
That was the intention.
Bob Abrahamian 26:28
But it never came out. That must’ve been frustrating.
Joseph Holman 26:32
It was.
Bob Abrahamian 26:39
Who produced that material?
Joseph Holman 26:46
Willie Mitchell.
Bob Abrahamian 26:49
And how did the tapes end up in your hands?
Glen Ross 26:54
Derek Echols ended up with them. After he passed, his nephew gave them to me.
Bob Abrahamian 27:03
It’s great that you still have them—so much material like that gets lost. And you said one time you recorded at Stax?
Joseph Holman 27:17
Yes. When they took us to Stax, we went around back and saw Isaac Hayes’ Cadillac—it had gold trim. We were stretched out taking pictures. The studio itself was in the back, downstairs.
Bob Abrahamian 27:52
Do you have the tapes from those sessions?
Glen Ross 27:55
No—just the ones from Hi.
Bob Abrahamian 27:59
I wonder why Willie Mitchell took you to Stax.
Joseph Holman 28:02
From what I understood, there was some kind of connection between Hi and Stax. They were friendly.
Bob Abrahamian 28:10
Was Stax big?
Joseph Holman 28:14
It looked like a theater. The studio was downstairs. Not that large.
Bob Abrahamian 28:23
Did you do any shows in Memphis?
Joseph Holman 28:31
No. Back then, they had strict rules about minors performing in clubs.
Bob Abrahamian 28:45
The opposite of Chicago—kids could play everywhere. So you recorded a bunch of tracks in Memphis, but they didn’t come out. Were you discouraged?
Glen Ross 29:12
Not really. We just kept writing and rehearsing. We figured something else would come.
Bob Abrahamian 29:30
You said you auditioned for Motown?
Glen Ross 29:34
Yes. By then, Charles Simmons had joined us. He was Stevie Wonder’s cousin.
Bob Abrahamian 29:39
How did he join?
Joseph Holman 29:47
Our original lead, Keith, left. Charles came in through Marcus.
Bob Abrahamian 30:10
So Charles also lived in Gary?
Glen Ross 30:13
Yes. Once we found out he was Stevie’s cousin, we got invited to Stevie’s house.
Bob Abrahamian 30:20
Stevie’s first cousin?
Joseph Holman 30:22
Yes. Their mothers were sisters.
Bob Abrahamian 30:25
Did Stevie see you perform?
Glen Ross 30:35
We did a show in Gary with him after we auditioned. He wrote a song for us too—“Make Me Feel So Good.”
Joseph Holman 31:05
We were in the bathroom going over harmonies when this guy at the sink offered a suggestion. Then he put on sunglasses—it was David Ruffin.
Bob Abrahamian 31:27
Wow. Was this after he’d gone solo?
Joseph Holman 31:32
Yeah, I believe so.
Bob Abrahamian 31:47
What year was that trip to Motown?
Joseph Holman 31:58
That was 1970.
Bob Abrahamian 32:01
Same kind of van trip?
Joseph Holman 32:01
Yeah, we rented a Volkswagen van.
Glen Ross 32:09
We had a guy named Tamp who drove. When we got to Stevie’s house, this huge dog came up and put its paws on my shoulders. I thought I was done for—but the dog didn’t bite.
Bob Abrahamian 32:42
What was Stevie’s house like?
Glen Ross 32:52
Really nice. He had a full music setup in the basement—synths, keyboards.
Joseph Holman 33:01
His Clavinet was sitting on the table in development. He was working on it.
Glen Ross 33:12
That was also the first time I saw an ARP 2600 synth—with patch cords and all.
Bob Abrahamian 33:26
So you recorded at Motown?
Glen Ross 33:29
Yes. In Studio B.
Glen Ross 33:33
Yes, the big studio.
Bob Abrahamian 33:35
Motown was in a house, right?
Glen Ross 33:35
Right. A big house with a sign out front. Real iconic.
Bob Abrahamian 33:54
You recorded two songs there?
Joseph Holman 35:57
Yes. “I’m Going to Move Up to a Higher Class” and “Make Me Feel So Good,” which Stevie wrote.
Bob Abrahamian 36:07
How long were you in Detroit?
Joseph Holman 36:15
Not long. We recorded and went right back to Gary. They were going to have a listening session with the Motown execs later.
Glen Ross 36:29
And Stevie was getting ready to marry Syreeta around that time.
Bob Abrahamian 36:36
So your own band played on those recordings? Not the Funk Brothers?
Glen Ross 36:46
Yes, it was all us.
Bob Abrahamian 36:50
Were you still going by The Domestics or The Domestic Four?
Joseph Holman 36:57
We switched back to The Domestics. We figured if we ever had to make a TV appearance, they’d only want to feature four singers. With the full name, everyone in the band was included.
Bob Abrahamian 37:22
That makes sense. I saw the photo—it looked very psychedelic, very Sly Stone-era.
Joseph Holman 37:52
Exactly. That’s what we were going for.
Bob Abrahamian 38:12
Were you viewed as a kid group, like the Jackson 5, or more adult?
Joseph Holman 38:22
We were more mature than the Jackson 5. And that was part of our pitch at Motown. We weren’t bubblegum. Still, some people said the Domestic Four name sounded too much like the Jackson 5.
Bob Abrahamian 38:50
So you didn’t have a contract with Motown—just recorded a demo?
Joseph Holman 39:10
Exactly. Our manager was a bit of a power-hound, and we were still minors. The adults made the decisions.
Bob Abrahamian 39:31
Right—so you didn’t have a say. After Motown didn’t pan out, what happened?
Joseph Holman 39:41
We were actually about to break up.
Glen Ross 39:44
We were disillusioned. Memphis didn’t work out. Motown didn’t work out. People started drifting.
Joseph Holman 40:00
But then my brother was in a band called The Enterprise, and they had a big show coming up with The Teques. They added us to the bill to draw a crowd. After our first set, we went to the dressing room—and there was Curtis Mayfield and Lucky Scott standing there.
Bob Abrahamian 40:34
Wow.
Joseph Holman 40:39
They said they’d heard about us and wanted us to come to Curtom so Eddie Thomas could hear us.
Bob Abrahamian 41:03
So what happened next?
Joseph Holman 41:03
We sang for Eddie. He was blown away. He said, “I’ve been looking for material like this for years.” Some of their writers got involved, and we signed with Curtom.
Bob Abrahamian 41:54
Was it just the vocal group that signed, or the whole band?
Joseph Holman 45:53
They signed the vocal group.
Bob Abrahamian 45:57
So what happened to Glenn and the rest of the band?
Joseph Holman 46:06
It was supposed to be a package deal, but like before, we weren’t in the decision-making process. Things were handled without our input.
Bob Abrahamian 46:23
You originally wanted to stay together?
Joseph Holman 46:24
Yes.
Bob Abrahamian 47:13
Interesting. I heard that Curtom passed on the Jackson 5 and later regretted it. Maybe they saw you as a second chance?
Joseph Holman 47:37
Could be. The name “Love’s Children” came from Curtis. He called his daughter his “love child,” and that name was one of several pulled from a hat.
Bob Abrahamian 47:54
So your first single had “Soul Is Love” on the A-side, and “This Is the End” on the B-side. Both were written by Curtis. One was more Jackson-style, and the other more Stair Steps-style.
Joseph Holman 48:23
Exactly. They were trying to cover both markets.
Bob Abrahamian 48:34
Do you remember recording in Chicago?
Joseph Holman 48:34
Yes, at RCA Studios on Wacker Drive. All the way upstairs.
Bob Abrahamian 48:57
Did Curtom have their own studio then?
Joseph Holman 49:07
Not yet. We recorded everything at RCA. One day, Diana Ross was there recording “I’m Coming Out” while we were there. That was exciting.
Bob Abrahamian 49:38
Did you start doing shows in Chicago around that time?
Glen Ross 49:34
Yes. Before that, a few shows. But once we got with Curtom, we were doing High Chaparral, Guys and Gals, Burning Spear, Bill Street Club...
Joseph Holman 50:04
Skyway Lounge, Tiger Lounge on the West Side—Don Cornelius used to host there.
Bob Abrahamian 50:18
Were you billed as The Domestics? Did your band play for the Impressions?
Joseph Holman 50:37
No, the Impressions had their own band. But we were always on the same shows with them.
Bob Abrahamian 50:52
Anyone else on those shows?
Joseph Holman 50:52
Ruby Andrews, Cassanora, Jodi Gayles, the Five Stairsteps...
Bob Abrahamian 51:05
Were the shows mostly on weekends? You were still in school?
Joseph Holman 51:10
Yes, mostly weekends.
Bob Abrahamian 51:17
Any memorable show stories?
Joseph Holman 51:24
At the High Chaparral, someone threw coins at us. The emcee stopped the show and told the crowd, “These boys are dynamite. They deserve better.” He brought us back out, and we walked through the crowd and people handed us money. That was a moment.
Bob Abrahamian 51:57
Were you still performing as Love’s Children?
Joseph Holman 52:05
Yes, and we had more psychedelic outfits—sometimes matching uniforms.
Bob Abrahamian 52:12
So you were performing pretty often around that time. Did the single “Soul Is Love” get much radio play?
Joseph Holman 52:19
Yeah, it did okay locally. WVON played it. Herb Kent supported it.
Bob Abrahamian 52:28
Do you remember if you did any television appearances?
Joseph Holman 52:36
We didn’t do Soul Train, but we did Kiddie-A-Go-Go and a couple of local shows. We were supposed to do Soul Train, but something fell through with management.
Bob Abrahamian 52:51
Did the label push you to tour?
Joseph Holman 52:55
Yes, we toured mainly the Midwest. Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Indianapolis—stuff like that.
Bob Abrahamian 53:08
Did you do any unusual venues?
Glen Ross 53:12
Yeah—we actually played in prisons.
Bob Abrahamian 53:15
Prisons?
Joseph Holman 53:16
Yes. Our manager thought it would be good exposure and a way to give back. We played Statesville, Pontiac, and Joliet.
Bob Abrahamian 53:35
What were those shows like?
Glen Ross 53:39
Intense. You could hear a pin drop before we started, then huge applause after.
Joseph Holman 53:52
We were escorted in. They took our measurements beforehand to make sure we didn’t leave with anyone’s jumpsuit!
Bob Abrahamian 54:15
Did you rehearse before those shows?
Joseph Holman 54:18
Yes. We always rehearsed. Marcus kept us tight.
Bob Abrahamian 54:25
Did you ever record a follow-up to “Soul Is Love”?
Joseph Holman 54:31
We recorded more songs at Curtom—four or five, I think. But only that one 45 was released.
Bob Abrahamian 54:43
Do you remember any titles?
Glen Ross 54:46
There was one called “Pretty Eyes” and another called “I Can Feel It.”
Bob Abrahamian 54:54
Were they in the same style?
Joseph Holman 54:59
Yes, but more mature sounding. We were evolving.
Bob Abrahamian 55:08
What happened with the group?
Joseph Holman 55:12
Like a lot of young groups, things started to change. Guys got older, some got drafted, some moved on. Curtom also shifted its focus.
Glen Ross 55:25
The label was putting a lot into the Impressions, Linda Clifford, and the Curtis projects. We kind of got shelved.
Bob Abrahamian 55:37
So the group officially disbanded?
Joseph Holman 55:41
Yes, around 1972 or ’73.
Bob Abrahamian 55:45
What did you do afterward?
Joseph Holman 55:49
I kept singing in church, and eventually started working with gospel groups. Later, I formed my own R&B band.
Glen Ross 56:03
I kept playing keyboards. I toured with a few acts and ended up with a group called Tweed Funk. We did blues and soul festivals all over.
Bob Abrahamian 56:23
Still active now?
Glen Ross 56:27
Yes. I’m with Midnight Crisis now. We do covers and originals. Based in Milwaukee.
Joseph Holman 56:38
I’m in a group called Soul Children—not the same as the Memphis group. We do shows in Northwest Indiana.
Bob Abrahamian 56:50
Have you two performed together again?
Glen Ross 56:53
Not recently, but we talk about it.
Joseph Holman 56:56
One day it’ll happen.
Bob Abrahamian 57:04
Any final thoughts about those early years?
Joseph Holman 57:10
They were some of the best times of our lives. We learned discipline, stage presence, and professionalism. It laid the foundation.
Glen Ross 57:25
It gave us lifelong friendships too. We still have love for each other—even after all these years.
Bob Abrahamian 57:40
That’s what it’s all about. Thanks for coming on the show.
Joseph Holman 57:44
Thank you.
Glen Ross 57:45
It was a pleasure.
Bob Abrahamian 57:48
You’ve been listening to Sitting in the Park on WHPK 88.5 FM, Chicago. That was Joseph Holman and Glen Ross of Love’s Children, formerly known as The Domestics. We’ll be playing their rare 45 next, along with other soul tracks from Gary, Indiana. Stay tuned.
