This rare and revelatory conversation on WHPK’s Sitting in the Park dives deep into the intertwined histories of Andrew Griffin, Johnny McKinney (aka Johnny Lee Mack) and The Magnetics, a harmony group born from the Cabrini-Green projects. From corner harmonies to Chess Records sessions, the segment traces their steps through Chicago’s overlooked soul history—complete with factory jobs, impromptu talent shows, label struggles, and musical perseverance. Featuring behind-the-scenes stories of Sable and JV Records, plus ties to legends like Curtis Mayfield and Vince Sanders, this is a living history of Chicago’s homegrown soul.
The story of The Magnetics is not one of instant stardom—it is a tale of perseverance, brotherhood, and neighborhood pride, rooted in the vibrant and often-overlooked world of grassroots Chicago soul. In this revelatory interview from Bob Abrahamian’s “Sitting in the Park” show on WHPK, listeners are taken on a journey that begins with two separate paths—those of Johnny McKinney and the members of The Magnetics—and merges into a remarkable story of soul music creation and collaboration.
Johnny McKinney’s entrance into the music world began humbly in Albion, Michigan, in the 1950s. A factory worker by day, McKinney moonlighted as a budding songwriter and self-taught guitarist. His first release, Angels in the Sky, issued on Chicago’s MAD Records in 1958, was the result of determination and serendipity. A visit to relatives in Chicago brought him to Wabash Avenue—then Chicago’s Record Row—where he encountered jazz guitarist George Freeman and saxophonist Von Freeman. This encounter not only connected him to the local music scene but also led to his debut on wax.
Meanwhile, on the North Side of Chicago, in the Cabrini-Green housing projects, a separate story was unfolding. Andrew Griffin, a childhood classmate of Jerry Butler, helped form The Magnetics during a community dance event in 1957. Like many soul groups of the time, they emerged from the rich vocal tradition of Chicago’s West and North sides—harmony-laden, doo-wop inspired, and deeply tied to their community. Singing on street corners, attending talent shows, and grinding it out at venues like the Regal and BBR Lounge, The Magnetics honed their sound while witnessing the rise of peers like Curtis Mayfield and Ramsey Lewis.
By the late 1960s, the two narratives converged. A mutual connection introduced Johnny McKinney to the remaining members of The Magnetics, who had lost a lead singer to the Vietnam draft. McKinney, a seasoned songwriter, brought structure, original material, and leadership to the group. Their synergy quickly manifested in recording sessions that produced When I’m With My Baby and Count the Days, released on the fledgling Sable Records. These songs, arranged by Chess Records’ Richard Evans and featuring backup vocals from local girl groups, exemplify the elegant, jazz-tinged edge of late-60s Chicago soul.
Though they lacked national success, the songs are deeply evocative of their era. McKinney’s lyrical sensitivity and Griffin’s smooth delivery on tracks like When I’m With My Baby captured the understated romanticism that defined so much regional soul music. Count the Days, written by original Magnetics member Don McLean, added further depth to their repertoire, while I’ll Keep Holding On and Jackie Baby showcased McKinney’s lead vocal strength.
Their final 45 as The Magnetics, released on JV—a brief reincarnation of Vee-Jay helmed by Calvin Carter—marked their commercial high point. Old Love and Wasting Time (later retitled Sippin’ Wine) were well-received on local radio, bolstered by Carter’s industry connections and the production’s polished studio sheen. Yet, as often happened with small soul labels of the time, instability and legal troubles spelled the end. Carter’s attempt to rebrand Vee-Jay was short-lived, and The Magnetics’ promising arc quietly concluded.
Still, McKinney wasn’t finished. Relocating to Milwaukee, he established his own production company and released Mama Take Care of Your Baby on Brewtown Records. Under the pseudonym Johnny Lee Mack, he kept crafting heartfelt soul tunes, using university bands like The Ox as his session players. His transition from group member to solo artist and entrepreneur reflected the adaptability and resilience required of Black artists navigating a changing music industry in the 1970s.
Perhaps the most touching aspect of the interview is its deep connection to place. Whether it’s the community dances in Cabrini-Green, studio sessions at Chess, or the streets of Record Row, this is soul music born from neighborhood culture and sustained by personal determination. Even decades later, when obscure UK collectors tracked McKinney down after hearing The Look on Your Face, the story had come full circle—proof that great soul never truly disappears.
Bob Abrahamian 00:00
Okay, you are tuned to WHPK 88.5 FM in Chicago. You are now listening to the Sitting in the Park show. Today is going to be a special show, because I have up in the studio right now two members of the Chicago group, The Magnetics. Today they'll be talking about their story, and we'll be playing their records. So it should be an interesting show.
First of all, if you guys could introduce yourselves.
Johnny McKinney 00:30
Well, my name is John McKinney—that’s my real name, John L. McKinney. I recorded under the name Johnny Lee Mack.
Andrew Griffin 00:39
And I'm Andrew Griffin, and that’s the name I recorded under.
Bob Abrahamian 00:45
So, we actually have sort of two stories to tell today, because Johnny McKinney had his own story, and The Magnetics had their own story. And then they sort of intersected and became one group.
So I guess first of all, if we could talk to John about how you got started in music and where you’re from originally.
Johnny McKinney 01:10
I'm originally from Albion, Michigan. I got started in the '50s—bought a guitar from a friend who wasn’t allowed to play it in his apartment.
Bob Abrahamian 01:23
Were you in high school at that time?
Johnny McKinney 01:25
No, I was out of high school. I bought it, started learning how to play a little bit, and then I started writing songs. The first song I wrote, I was working for a place called Union Steel Company in Albion, Michigan, and I wrote a song called Angels in the Sky.
Bob Abrahamian 01:45
And that ended up actually being released on a record?
Johnny McKinney 01:49
Right—it was released on the MAD label by Tommy “Madman” Jones.
Bob Abrahamian 01:54
So it was released on a Chicago record label, MAD Records, around 1958 or something like that?
Johnny McKinney 01:59
Something like ’58, yeah—something like that.
Bob Abrahamian 02:03
So you were in Albion, Michigan—which is about 180 miles from Chicago. How did you end up getting a record on a Chicago label?
Johnny McKinney 02:11
I was down here visiting some relatives. While I was here, I decided to take the dub downtown and just hit some of the record companies to see what I could do with it.
Bob Abrahamian 02:23
So you had already recorded the record in a studio and produced it—you were just shopping it around to labels?
Johnny McKinney 02:29
Well, actually, yes, at that time I was. Then I met George Freeman—George Freeman, Von Freeman, and Tommy Jones. They asked me if they could help me get it released.
Bob Abrahamian 02:45
Do you remember where you met them?
Johnny McKinney 02:48
On Wabash Avenue downtown.
Bob Abrahamian 02:52
So you met them down on Record Row, pretty much?
Johnny McKinney 02:56
Yeah, pretty much. I was making my rounds, and they saw me repairing my guitar. I think it was Von Freeman who asked me some questions about it, and I told him what I was doing. He decided to get me in touch with his brother, George. At that time, they were working with Ralph Bass and doing a dub for King Records.
Bob Abrahamian 03:19
So they ended up putting out a record on you—on MAD Records?
Johnny McKinney 03:27
Yes, it was Angels in the Sky and Gee, How Lucky.
Bob Abrahamian 03:31
Did it get any play on the radio?
Johnny McKinney 03:34
Yes—mainly in my hometown.
Bob Abrahamian 03:37
How big is Albion, Michigan?
Johnny McKinney 03:39
Probably now it’s about—I'd guess—close to 20,000 people.
Bob Abrahamian 03:46
Were there any other artists from Albion, Michigan?
Johnny McKinney 03:49
Not that I know of.
Bob Abrahamian 03:51
Were you trying to do music full-time? Was that your goal at that time?
Johnny McKinney 03:57
No, it wasn’t my goal then—I was working in a factory. A company called Unit Steel Products Company. But I did want to be successful—I wanted to go further and get out of the factories. That was my goal.
Bob Abrahamian 04:12
Okay, so that record you cut, Angels in the Sky, got play in your hometown.
Johnny McKinney 04:17
Yes, it got recognition on the radio station WLM. The disc jockey who was pushing it was named Jim Beasley.
Bob Abrahamian 04:25
Okay. So you must’ve been excited to have a record out.
Johnny McKinney 04:28
Definitely.
Bob Abrahamian 04:30
Do you remember how old you were when that record came out?
Johnny McKinney 04:33
I was about 19 or 20.
Bob Abrahamian 04:36
And then, soon after that, you ended up recording for Clock Records?
Johnny McKinney 04:46
Yes, I went to New York and did a thing with Walter Moody on Clock Records.
Bob Abrahamian 04:55
The record you cut for Clock Records was called If You Leave Me—that’s the side I have, at least. How did you end up going to New York? Were you just looking for a deal there?
Johnny McKinney 05:07
There was a lady named Walter B. Dean, who had written Te Amo for Frankie Laine back in the day. She wanted to manage me, and I got some connections through her. She started sending me to different places.
Bob Abrahamian 05:21
So you were traveling around looking for deals. Did you go anywhere else besides New York?
Johnny McKinney 05:26
Yes—I worked New York, Atlanta, Georgia, Chicago, and Wisconsin. Those were the main areas.
Bob Abrahamian 05:34
And you ended up getting on Clock Records. That label is probably most famous for Dave "Baby" Cortez—he had The Happy Organ on that label. So you cut this record, and it got released around 1960, something like that?
Johnny McKinney 05:46
Yeah, around that time.
Bob Abrahamian 05:48
Let me play the record, and then we can talk a little bit more. This is Johnny McKinney with his second record—this is If You Leave Me.
Bob Abrahamian 08:43
Okay, that was Johnny McKinney with his second record, If You Leave Me, and it was, I think, released sometime around 1964 on Clock Records in New York.
There’s actually a vocal group backing it, but that group isn’t The Magnetics, right?
Johnny McKinney 09:06
No, it's not The Magnetics.
Bob Abrahamian 09:08
But you said it wasn't just some studio guys—it was a real group from New York?
Johnny McKinney 09:12
Yeah, it was a group out of New York that the arranger brought in to put background vocals on it.
Bob Abrahamian 09:17
Do you remember what group it was?
Johnny McKinney 09:20
No, I don’t recall the name.
Bob Abrahamian 09:24
That’s a really nice record—it has a nice early soul sound. Do you know if it got any play on the radio?
Johnny McKinney 09:29
Well, I had my picture in the paper—front page and everything. It climbed to number 12, maybe even close to number one, on the Albion radio station.
Bob Abrahamian 09:42
Okay. So, while all of this was happening, The Magnetics were forming and singing together.
So I guess we’ll talk to Andrew for a little bit about the story of The Magnetics.
First of all, what part of Chicago are you from?
Andrew Griffin 10:01
I’m from the north side of Chicago—Cabrini-Green.
Bob Abrahamian 10:03
So were all the members of The Magnetics, besides Johnny, from Cabrini-Green?
Andrew Griffin 10:06
Yes.
Bob Abrahamian 10:08
Listeners probably know Cabrini-Green is famous for many Chicago soul artists.
Andrew Griffin 10:19
Yeah—we had Jerry Butler, Ramsey Lewis, Curtis Mayfield, and Lance—believe it or not. He wasn’t originally from Cabrini-Green, but he was there. Isaac Hayes was there at one time, too.
We used to call him “Big Nose Light.” He ran track back then. At that time, he wasn’t singing—not until he went to California, I believe.
Bob Abrahamian 10:47
So how did you get involved with singing? And when did The Magnetics form?
Andrew Griffin 10:53
In the projects, we had Friday night dances. The management would host dances in the circle behind the administration building.
A lot of the little groups would sing during these events—it was like a local talent show. Each group would get up and perform.
Bob Abrahamian 11:19
So you grew up watching those groups perform?
Andrew Griffin 11:24
I was the same age as them—we were all part of it. One Friday, we were all just hanging out, and they asked for more groups to come up and sing.
So Melvin, Tommy, Don, Honda, and I said, “Let’s go up there.” We just went up and started singing. And after that, we stayed together, because the harmony was pretty tight. We decided we wanted to work at it and try to make a real group.
Bob Abrahamian 11:53
Did you guys all know each other before then? Did you live in the same building or near each other?
Andrew Griffin 11:57
We all lived in the row houses. Same neighborhood. We all went to Jenner School. At the time, we were attending Wells High School and also Washburn Trade—which eventually became Cooley High.
Bob Abrahamian 12:24
Okay. And you were even in the same class with Jerry Butler?
Andrew Griffin 12:29
Yes—Jerry Butler and I met in kindergarten. We graduated high school together.
Bob Abrahamian 12:38
So the four guys you sang with that night at the dance—was that the first time you all sang together?
Andrew Griffin 12:45
Yes. Originally it wasn’t even meant to be a performance. It was just a community dance, and they said, “Who wants to sing?”
We just got up there and sang—like the other groups. We didn’t win anything, but we performed anyway.
Bob Abrahamian 12:59
Do you remember what song you sang?
Andrew Griffin 13:03
Whippoorwill.
Bob Abrahamian 13:06
How did it go?
Andrew Griffin 13:08
[sings a short melodic line] “Whippoorwill…” That kind of thing. It was just backyard harmony we threw together.
Bob Abrahamian 13:19
Do you remember what year that was?
Andrew Griffin 13:23
That was in 1957.
Bob Abrahamian 13:28
Were you in high school then?
Andrew Griffin 13:33
Yeah. I was a senior in high school. Melvin was a junior. Honda was a junior. Don was a senior. I think Tommy was a senior too. Don went to Marshall High on the west side, and Tommy was at Wells High.
Bob Abrahamian 13:57
What are the full names of the original five members?
Andrew Griffin 14:01
Honda Dubble, Tommy Scott, Melvin Boyd, Andrew Griffin (myself), and Don McLean.
Bob Abrahamian 14:18
Had you sung with other groups before that?
Andrew Griffin 14:23
Just on the street—standing on the corners and harmonizing. That was the thing to do. Instead of getting into trouble, we’d sing on the corners. Wherever the groups were harmonizing, we were there.
Bob Abrahamian 14:37
Do you remember some of the other groups on the street? Did you ever see Curtis Mayfield singing?
Andrew Griffin 14:43
Curtis Mayfield, at that time, was usually by himself. He’d sit in front of Seward Park playing his guitar. People used to laugh and say he couldn’t sing. But I’d say, “Watch him—he’s going to be something.”
Later on, he and Jerry Butler formed The Roosters while they were still in high school.
Bob Abrahamian 15:18
Okay, and I think For Your Precious Love came out around 1958?
Andrew Griffin 15:24
Late 1957—that’s when it came out. We graduated in 1957.
Bob Abrahamian 15:29
So you guys were together as a group for a while before you connected with Johnny McKinney and started recording. What were you doing in those early years?
Andrew Griffin 15:45
We went around to different clubs. We did club shows and talent scout competitions, especially on the West Side—places like the BBR on 16th Street. We also did a talent show at the Regal.
And, of course, we always performed at neighborhood events in Cabrini-Green.
Bob Abrahamian 16:15
Did you guys ever end up recording anything during that time?
Andrew Griffin 16:20
No, not back then. But we were trying. We went to Vee-Jay Records, following Jerry Butler’s lead. We auditioned, and they said, “We’ll get back to you.”
Then Honda got drafted—he went to Vietnam. So we dropped down to four members, and everybody started working and starting families. That slowed things down.
Bob Abrahamian 16:42
So this was sometime in the mid-’60s?
Andrew Griffin 16:44
Yeah—mid-60s. We were down to four guys, and singing slowed down. Everyone was working and taking care of family responsibilities.
Then in 1969, we hooked up with Johnny.
Johnny McKinney 17:22
We got connected through Gloria. She was a friend of the group—a friend of the McKinney family. She heard us singing with just the four of us and said, “I know someone who’d be a great lead singer.” And that’s how I got introduced.
Bob Abrahamian 17:35
Was Honda previously your lead singer before he was drafted?
Andrew Griffin 17:37
Yes—he was one of our lead singers.
Bob Abrahamian 17:56
So, Johnny, the last thing we talked about was the record you released in 1960. What were you doing in the early to mid-’60s? Were you still recording, or were you mostly working?
Johnny McKinney 18:06
Basically, I was just doing it on the side. Like Andrew said—we were all working people. I had to work.
Bob Abrahamian 18:16
And when did you move to Chicago from Albion?
Johnny McKinney 18:23
I moved to Chicago in 1963.
Bob Abrahamian 18:26
Where were you staying in Chicago?
Johnny McKinney 18:30
In ’63, I was living on the South Side—around 67th and Harper, something like that.
Bob Abrahamian 18:35
Okay. And you met the rest of the group through that manager—Gloria—you mentioned earlier?
Johnny McKinney 18:48
She wasn’t exactly our manager—more of a friend. We met her through a friend of The Magnetics’ family. She knew me and helped put us together.
At the time, I was also working out of Milwaukee. She knew I was still doing music and thought it would be a good fit.
Bob Abrahamian 19:15
So once you connected, did you guys start practicing together—singing and writing?
Johnny McKinney 19:19
Yeah. I was writing the material for us, and we were practicing just about every Sunday.
Andrew Griffin 19:27
Every weekend—we’d either be out at Johnny’s house in Markham, or at my house. And we also practiced at Cabrini-Green.
Bob Abrahamian 19:35
So you were rehearsing both on the North Side and South Side?
Andrew Griffin 19:38
Yes. Melvin worked janitorial at Cabrini, so he had the keys. We’d stay in the community center until one or two o’clock in the morning just rehearsing.
Bob Abrahamian 19:55
That’s dedication. And eventually, you ended up recording a record as The Magnetics. The track was When I’m With My Baby.
I’m going to play the record, and then we’ll talk about how the deal came together. So this is The Magnetics’ first official record, with Andrew Griffin singing lead.
Johnny McKinney 20:36
That’s right—I wrote the song.
Bob Abrahamian 20:40
Okay, so Andrew sings lead, and Johnny wrote the track. Let’s hear When I’m With My Baby by The Magnetics.
[music playing] 🎵
Bob Abrahamian 22:13
Okay, that was The Magnetics with their very first record, When I’m With My Baby, and Andrew Griffin—who's here in the studio—is singing lead on that track.
So, Andrew, who else is singing backup on that 45?
Andrew Griffin 23:54
On that one, we had Tommy Scott, Melvin Boyd, Johnny McKinney, and myself.
Bob Abrahamian 24:01
So it was the five of you. Earlier, we were talking about how you were practicing in Markham and Cabrini-Green. How did you actually end up getting the record deal?
Andrew Griffin 24:19
Well, Calvin Carter and another guy named McCord would come by and check on us. We knew them.
Bob Abrahamian 24:25
That record came out on Sable Records, right?
Andrew Griffin 24:32
Right. McCord came by Johnny’s house—he and another guy, Webb. They drove by one time while we were rehearsing in Johnny’s garage.
Bob Abrahamian 24:41
So Webb and McCord were the two guys—and Vince Sanders from WBEE was involved, too?
Johnny McKinney 24:43
Yes—Vince Sanders was working at WBEE radio. He was a DJ at the time, and I believe a lot of the referrals came through him.
Bob Abrahamian 25:06
So they heard you singing and decided to get involved?
Johnny McKinney 25:11
Yeah, we were rehearsing, and they heard us. That sparked some ideas, I think. They hadn’t even started Sable Records yet, but after hearing us, I think that got the ball rolling.
Bob Abrahamian 25:21
So did you sign a contract? How did things move forward from there?
Johnny McKinney 25:32
One thing led to another. We also worked with Burgess Gardner, and there were a lot of musicians and producers floating around. It all kind of connected from there—people heard us and wanted to try different things.
Bob Abrahamian 25:48
Do you remember where you recorded the song?
Andrew Griffin 25:52
At Chess Studios.
Bob Abrahamian 25:55
On Michigan Avenue?
Andrew Griffin 25:56
Yes.
Bob Abrahamian 26:06
And did When I’m With My Baby get any airplay?
Andrew Griffin 26:08
Yeah, that was the side they pushed. I remember hearing it on the Dan Ryan Expressway on my way to work—I was on the radio!
Bob Abrahamian 26:25
And the flip side of that record was Count the Days, with Johnny singing lead, right?
Johnny McKinney 26:31
That’s right. And then we did another single: Jackie Baby backed with I’ll Keep Holding On.
Bob Abrahamian 26:34
So it probably helped that you had a DJ—Vince Sanders—behind the record?
Johnny McKinney 26:40
It helped a lot having people like that behind you.
Bob Abrahamian 26:43
Was he one of the main people who played your record?
Johnny McKinney 26:47
He played it on WBEE, yeah. But there were a few DJs working together who would refer you from one to another. They had what they called a “playlist,” and if they liked you, they’d add your record to it and give you a shot.
Bob Abrahamian 27:11
So the second record—did you cut I’ll Keep Holding On in the same session as Count the Days? Or did you do all four songs at once?
Johnny McKinney 27:27
There were other songs we did, but we didn’t get a label to release them.
Bob Abrahamian 27:34
But in that particular session, did you only record four songs?
And do you remember anything about the orchestra or musicians? You mentioned earlier that Burgess Gardner was involved—was he the arranger?
Johnny McKinney 27:44
Not for that session. Those were studio musicians at Chess.
Andrew Griffin 27:51
It was Richard Evans who arranged those sessions.
Bob Abrahamian 27:55
Richard Evans—the jazz arranger from Chess Records?
Andrew Griffin 27:58
Yes, he did the full arrangement.
Johnny McKinney 28:01
Right. He used studio musicians he knew. When he had sessions to arrange, he’d bring in players he trusted.
Bob Abrahamian 28:09
And, Johnny, did you write all four songs that ended up on the two Sable releases?
Johnny McKinney 28:14
All of them except Count the Days. That one was written by Don McLean.
Bob Abrahamian 28:21
Okay, so Don McLean wrote Count the Days. Who sang lead on that one and on I’ll Keep Holding On and Jackie Baby?
Johnny McKinney 28:27
I sang lead on I’ll Keep Holding On and Jackie Baby.
Bob Abrahamian 28:31
Alright, let me go ahead and play I’ll Keep Holding On, the second record by The Magnetics, featuring Johnny McKinney on lead.
[music playing] 🎵
Bob Abrahamian 31:38
Okay, that was I’ll Keep Holding On by The Magnetics. Johnny McKinney sang lead on that one.
Now, we were just talking—there were some female voices in the background on that track. You mentioned they were actually part of a girl group?
Andrew Griffin 31:44
Yeah, they were four young ladies who always used to rehearse. They never had a name, really. They were just a group of girls that sang together regularly.
Bob Abrahamian 31:59
Do you remember if they had an official name?
Johnny McKinney 32:03
No, they were just like we were—neighborhood singers. They didn’t have a group name or anything.
Bob Abrahamian 32:07
Were they from Markham or Chicago?
Johnny McKinney 32:10
Chicago.
Bob Abrahamian 32:12
Okay, so that was I’ll Keep Holding On, the second Sable single by The Magnetics, featuring some additional female background vocals and arranged by Richard Evans.
We were just talking about how jazzy that record sounded, and how that actually may have hurt its airplay—it was a little ahead of its time.
Andrew Griffin 32:54
Yeah, we got some airplay, but not as much as we hoped for.
Bob Abrahamian 32:56
Did you guys start doing shows after that? Were you performing more, especially since the records were being played on the radio?
Johnny McKinney 33:02
Not really—we didn’t do anything really big.
Bob Abrahamian 33:05
What was the biggest show you remember doing?
Johnny McKinney 33:08
The biggest thing was probably when we performed with Ruby Andrews.
Andrew Griffin 33:17
Yeah, we opened for her at a show. I think it was some kind of special event or affair.
Bob Abrahamian 33:28
Was it at the High Chaparral?
Johnny McKinney 33:31
No, it wasn’t there. It was in some auditorium where she was headlining.
Bob Abrahamian 33:33
And that was around the time her song Casanova came out?
Andrew Griffin 33:39
Right. Her record Casanova came out around the same time as ours, so we were part of the promotional lineup.
Johnny McKinney 33:44
Yeah, it was part of a promotional campaign.
Bob Abrahamian 33:46
Got it. So The Magnetics ended up cutting one more 45—Old Love backed with Wasting Time. That came out on the JV label.
What’s the story behind that one? How did you end up moving to that label, and who ran it?
Johnny McKinney 34:03
That happened through another referral—one company to another, one producer to another. That record came out on JV, which was essentially the old Vee-Jay label.
Bob Abrahamian 34:16
So JV was Calvin Carter’s label?
Johnny McKinney 34:19
Right. It was a rebranding of Vee-Jay—he flipped the name around and tried to restart the label.
Bob Abrahamian 34:28
He had lost control of Vee-Jay and was trying to make a comeback under a new name?
Johnny McKinney 34:37
Exactly. They were bankrupt, and there were a lot of legal issues, so he was trying to reestablish something under a slightly altered name.
Andrew Griffin 34:45
Yeah, Capitol Records and others were after them for rights, royalties, all that.
Bob Abrahamian 34:49
Right. I think they even had trouble with Beatles licensing, among other things.
Johnny McKinney 34:54
Yes, that’s correct.
Bob Abrahamian 35:06
So Calvin Carter produced that record, and it came out on JV. You said one side was Old Love and the other was Wasting Time.
Which side was meant to be the A-side?
Johnny McKinney 35:22
Old Love was the A-side. Wasting Time was actually a remake—I later redid it as Sippin' Wine.
Bob Abrahamian 35:34
Oh, okay. So you remade Wasting Time later under a different title.
That’s actually my favorite of the two—it’s a great track about hanging out.
Andrew Griffin 35:44
Yeah, same melody, same concept—it just evolved into Sippin’ Wine.
Bob Abrahamian 35:57
Alright, let me play the B-side of that last record by The Magnetics—this is Wasting Time.
[music playing] 🎵
Bob Abrahamian 39:18
Okay, that was The Magnetics with their final record—Wasting Time. Andrew was just saying that the sound effect on that record—pouring water into a glass—was done live in front of the microphone.
Andrew Griffin 39:21
Yeah, that was Johnny—we were trying to make it sound like pouring a drink.
Johnny McKinney 39:32
“Sippin’ wine, wasting time.” We had a lot of fun doing that one.
Bob Abrahamian 39:42
So, did Old Love get any play on the radio?
Johnny McKinney 39:46
Yes—it did. That was probably our biggest record.
Bob Abrahamian 39:49
I think it helped that Calvin Carter had stronger promotional connections than the smaller Sable label.
Andrew Griffin 39:59
Yeah, we got a lot more play with the last two records than with the earlier four.
But we didn’t really do many personal appearances—live shows—after that. Things kind of started to fall apart.
Bob Abrahamian 40:21
You’re saying the label began to fold?
Andrew Griffin 40:23
Yeah. Calvin Carter’s situation started breaking down.
Bob Abrahamian 40:34
So what happened after that? Because I know, Johnny, you ended up remaking Wasting Time as Sippin’ Wine in the early ’70s on Chess Records.
Johnny McKinney 40:37
Right.
Bob Abrahamian 40:43
Did The Magnetics stay together for a while after that last record?
Andrew Griffin 40:43
Not really. We didn’t do any singing after that. Johnny went to Milwaukee, and Melvin and I drove up there to see what was going on—see if we could still be involved. But it didn’t materialize.
Johnny McKinney 41:14
Yeah, they were working with me, but I ended up getting directed to New York. That’s when we remade Sippin’ Wine—third time around.
The company I was working with wanted to change the title. That’s how it became Sippin’ Wine.
Bob Abrahamian 41:32
And that came out on Chess Records around 1970, right?
Johnny McKinney 41:35
Yes.
Bob Abrahamian 41:37
So were you living in Milwaukee at that point, or just working there?
Johnny McKinney 41:47
I was working there—at the Midwest Success Training Association.
Bob Abrahamian 41:54
What kind of work was that?
Johnny McKinney 41:58
It was a program to help people study for the GED.
Bob Abrahamian 42:06
Were you commuting back and forth to Chicago?
Johnny McKinney 42:10
Not every day. I had an apartment up there. I’d come back to Chicago on the weekends.
Bob Abrahamian 42:16
So while you were in Milwaukee, you got involved in the music scene there?
Johnny McKinney 42:19
Yeah. I was working in a studio—recording songs I had written, trying to find something worth putting on wax.
Bob Abrahamian 42:26
And how did you get the Chess Records deal?
Johnny McKinney 42:35
I went to New York. I was shopping around—walking the streets, hitting record companies.
Bob Abrahamian 42:38
Even though Chess was based in Chicago, it was GRT Chess by then?
Johnny McKinney 42:46
Yes, GRT had bought Chess. But I got the deal through the New York office.
Bob Abrahamian 42:51
So the record Sippin’ Wine was paired with a dance track called Yoke Stroke With Me Baby. Harvey Scales had a “yoke” song too.
Did you record those in Milwaukee?
Johnny McKinney 43:10
We recorded part of it in Milwaukee and finished it in New York.
Bob Abrahamian 43:20
Do you remember who the female background singers were?
Johnny McKinney 43:22
Just some friends of the musicians—some of their girlfriends. They weren’t an official group.
Bob Abrahamian 43:32
Andrew, you mentioned that you and Melvin tried to come up to Milwaukee to be part of the project, but Chess wasn’t interested?
Andrew Griffin 43:54
Right. Johnny called and invited us up. Only Melvin and I went. We wanted to see what was going on before involving the rest of the group. He was doing a lot of studio work.
But before anything could happen, he got directed to New York.
Bob Abrahamian 44:45
So you ended up cutting that record, and it got play in Milwaukee?
Johnny McKinney 44:48
Yes, it did.
Bob Abrahamian 45:05
You showed me a newspaper article where you were performing in a club. It mentioned a white band called The Ox.
Johnny McKinney 45:16
Yeah, The Ox were some white guys from the university—a good band.
Bob Abrahamian 45:21
Were they your backing band?
Johnny McKinney 45:25
Yes. They were also on the recording.
Bob Abrahamian 45:27
And then you cut another record—Mama Take Care of Your Baby—on Brewtown Records. That was a Milwaukee label. It says “New World Production” on the label.
Were you starting a company?
Johnny McKinney 46:51
Yes. I was the president of New World Production. It was a small production company.
Bob Abrahamian 47:25
Was Mama Take Care of Your Baby the only release from that?
Johnny McKinney 47:27
Yes, at that time.
Bob Abrahamian 47:33
How did you get that deal with Brewtown?
Johnny McKinney 47:36
Through an arranger—I can’t remember his name now—who knew me and recommended it.
Bob Abrahamian 47:41
Was it Ron WePay? That name was on the label.
Johnny McKinney 47:46
Yes—that’s him.
Bob Abrahamian 48:05
And you released that under the name Johnny Lee Mack. Is your middle name really Lee?
Johnny McKinney 48:07
Yes—my full name is John Lee McKinney. Johnny Lee Mack was just a catchier name.
Bob Abrahamian 48:16
Alright, let’s play part one of Mama Take Care of Your Baby.
[music playing] 🎵
Bob Abrahamian 51:09
That was Mama Take Care of Your Baby by Johnny Lee Mack—who is really Johnny McKinney, who’s here in the studio. That was one of your last releases, and it came out on Milwaukee’s Brewtown Records in the early ’70s. It got some local radio play, too.
So what happened with The Magnetics after that?
Andrew Griffin 51:42
As far as performing—we stopped. Everyone kind of went their separate ways.
Bob Abrahamian 51:57
Johnny, you stayed active in music. Andrew, did you do anything else musically?
Andrew Griffin 52:05
No. I started a big family and worked for the CTA. I stayed there for 32 years. But I always loved music. I grew up around famous musicians.
Johnny McKinney 52:22
Yeah—we came up around Curtis Mayfield, Major Lance, Ramsey Lewis...
Andrew Griffin 52:24
Exactly. Ramsey was older, but he went to Wells High—the same district school as us.
We all came from the same part of Chicago. Cabrini-Green originally had row houses for Montgomery Ward workers. But the workers didn’t want to live there, so they opened them up to other families.
Bob Abrahamian 52:58
Was it called Cabrini-Green back then?
Andrew Griffin 53:02
Yes—Francis Cabrini. That was the name even before the high-rises were built.
Bob Abrahamian 53:16
So when the high-rises were added, the name just stayed?
Andrew Griffin 53:19
Yes. Cabrini-Green. They had red buildings, brown buildings—the north and south sides of Division Street.
Bob Abrahamian 54:08
That’s really interesting Chicago history.
So, Andrew, you started a family. Johnny, you stayed in music?
Johnny McKinney 54:21
Yes, I started my own business—McKinney Music Inc.
Bob Abrahamian 54:26
Did you move back to Chicago?
Johnny McKinney 54:28
Yes. I left Milwaukee and came back full time.
Bob Abrahamian 54:32
And what was McKinney Music?
Johnny McKinney 54:45
A music store. We sold instruments and taught lessons.
Bob Abrahamian 54:50
And you still have your store today, right? In Beverly?
Johnny McKinney 54:54
Yes—near Evergreen Plaza. It's called Chicago’s Sound.
Bob Abrahamian 54:58
So people can still come and take guitar or piano lessons from you?
Johnny McKinney 55:05
Yes—though I never really promoted myself much. Even my daughter was surprised when she heard some of my old records. She didn’t know I had been a singer.
Bob Abrahamian 55:42
That’s funny. And actually, maybe five or six years ago, a label in the UK released some of your unreleased material. One of the songs was The Look on Your Face. It came out on the Grapevine label.
Johnny McKinney 56:06
I wasn’t even aware of that.
Bob Abrahamian 56:07
They put it out on 45—I’ll show it to you.
Johnny McKinney 56:15
I’d appreciate that.
Bob Abrahamian 56:16
It’s amazing that 40 years later, people in the UK are still discovering your music.
Johnny McKinney 56:26
Yeah—they even came from England to see me. I guess they heard the songs and tracked me down. We talked about some possible releases.
Bob Abrahamian 56:41
That’s incredible.
Well, I’ve got to say—thanks so much for coming down and telling your story.
Johnny McKinney 56:54
You actually told me some things I didn’t know! You reminded me of things I had forgotten about.
Bob Abrahamian 57:00
Any last words for the listening audience?
Johnny McKinney 57:03
Just thank you for the research and the opportunity. I appreciate it.
Bob Abrahamian 57:15
Thanks again. This last record I’m going to play is Johnny Lee Mack’s remake of Sippin’ Wine.
